US vs LEONARD PELTIER TRIAL TRANSCRIPT EXCERPTS Case Number CR77-3003

Testimony of Robert Ecoffey {1}, BIA POLICE
{cont in volume 5}

(Whereupon, at 3:43 o'clock, p.m., the jury returned to the courtroom; and the following further proceedings were had in the presence and hearing of the jury:)
 MR. HULTMAN:  May it please the Court, the Government calls Robert Ecoffey.
 ROBERT DALE ECOFFEY,
being first duly sworn, testified as follows:
 DIRECT EXAMINATION
By MR. HULTMAN:
 Q  Would you state to the jury and to the Court your name, please?
 A  My name is Robert Dale Ecoffey.
 Q  And where do you live, Mr. Ecoffey?
 A  In Pine Ridge, South Dakota.
 Q  And how old are you?
 A  I am 22 years old.
 Q  And approximately how long have you lived in the Pine Ridge Area.
 A  All my life.
 Q  What has been the nature of your employment including the year of 1975?
 A  I have been working in law enforcement on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation.
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 Q  And in what capacity, for what agency have you been working in law enforcement?
 A  Bureau of Indian Affairs.
 Q  And what has been the nature of your occupation and responsibilities there?
 A  Right now I am employed as a supervisor-guard at this time.
 Q  All right. When did you first come to work for the Bureau of Indian Affairs, approximately?
 A  I have been working there about three years.
 Q  All right, and were you so employed during the month of June, 1975?
 A  Yes, I was.
 Q  Now, is the Bureau of Indian Affairs an enforcement agency that represents a Department of the Federal Government other than and different from the Department of Justice?
 A  Yes, it is.
 Q  If you know -- it is?
 A  Yes.
 Q  So it is not a part of the Department of Justice, is that correct?
 A  That's correct.
 Q  Do you know what Department it is a part of, Mr. Ecoffey?
 A  It is in the Department of Interior.
 Q  Part of the Department of Interior?
 A  Yes.
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 Q  Is this a responsibility that is true not only on the Pine Ridge Reservation, but generally speaking on Indian Reservations in the United States?
 A  Yes, it is.
 Q  All right. Now, I want to take you to the day of the 24th and the 25th and the 26th of June, 1975, and ask you, first of all, when you were first made aware that there existed a Federal warrant charging Jim Eagle or James Eagle with the crime of robbery?
 A  O.k. The first time I became aware of this was, I believe it was on the 24th of June.
 Q  All right. Could you just briefly in a sentence or two outline how this matter came, what was concerned with this matter, was it a matter that just concerned Jimmy Eagle, first of all?
 A  No, it wasn't. There was warrants charging four different subjects in an incident.
 Q  All right, and Jimmy Eagle was just one of the four, is that correct?
 A  Yes, he was.
 Q  And do you recall what the crimes were?
 A  O.k. Jimmy Eagle, I believe, was charged with robbery, Herman Thunder Hawk was charged with robbery. Teddy Pourier was charged with assault with a dangerous weapon, and Hobart Horse was charged with assault with a dangerous weapon.
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 Q  Had this grown up out of an incident that had happened a few days before?
 A  Yes, it did.
 Q  And was it a part of your responsibility as a member of the Bureau of Indian Affairs to seek to apprehend those particular subjects, is that a fair conclusion on my part?
 A  Yes, sir.
 Q  And is this a normal and everyday function of individuals in the capacity that you were in on this Reservation and other Reservations?
 A  Yes, it is.
 Q  I want to then take you to the 25th of June, the next day in 1975, and ask you what, if anything, happened around 5:00 clock in the evening on the 25th?
 A  O.k Around 5:00 p.m., in the evening I was at my office there at Pine Ridge, Law and Order building; and I met with Special Agent Ron Williams and Jack Coler. They came down into my office.  Q And had you seen these Agents before and recognized them, and familiar with them?
 A  Yes, I did.
 Q  All right. Did you have any discussion of any kind at that time?
 A  Yes. Special Agent Williams requested any assistance in apprehending, serving a warrant on Jimmy Eagle.
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 Q  All right, what, if anything did you do at that time?
 A  O.k. I had another investigator there that was detailed to me. Me and him, a guy by the name of Glenn Littlebird, we went in our police unit; and Special Agent Coler and Williams went in Williams' unit. We proceeded toward the town of Oglala.
 Q  Now, you indicated that these events started in your office. By that, it is the Bureau of Indian Affairs' office, not just your office alone, is that correct?
 A  That's correct.
 Q  And on Exhibit No. 71, would you point out and using the pointer, where with relation to Exhibit 71 and approximately how far from the area represented here is where your office is located and what community?
 A  O.k. Pine Ridge would be about 12 miles up Highway 18. We were coming out of Pine Ridge, this direction here (indicating.)
 Q  All right, so you came out of your office in Pine Ridge and then you traveled on Highway 18, is that correct?
 A  That's correct.
 Q  And you went right by the area here that is projected on the map, is that correct, Exhibit 71?
 A  That's correct.
 Q  Then approximately how far beyond the area that's represented on Government's Exhibit 1 did you go in order to reach your destination of Oglala, some place in Oglala.
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 A  About three miles.
 Q  Approximately three miles?
 A  Yes.
 Q  All right. Now, you might sit down again.
 Are you very familiar with this particular area that we have been discussing here, the two communities?
 A  Fairly.
 Q  Having lived all of your life in that area, is that correct?
 A  Yes.
 Q  Where did you then go in Oglala -- now, I understand there were four of you, is that correct?
 A  Yes, there was.
 Q  All right.
 A  O.k. First we went to the Jumping Bull residence. That's about 12 miles out of Pine Ridge.
 Q  All right, and where did you go in the Jumping Bull area?
 A  O.k. Went to the residence of Wanda Siers. We went right up to the residence.
 Q  All right. Did you go -- is the reason that you went there, at whose direction was it or determination to go to the Wanda Siers' residence?
 A  Well, it was just mine. We had information that Jimmy Eagle had been staying at this residence.
 Q  All right, and would you point out to the jury where it {658} was that you went and what residence to which you are referring?
 A  O.k. Went to the residence here (indicating).
 MR. HULTMAN:  Let the record show that the witness has pointed to the Wanda Siers' residence on Government Exhibit 71.
 Q  (By Mr. Hultman) All right. Now, would you -- who traveled with whom in coming from Pine Ridge to the Jumping Bull area and to the home of Wanda Siers'?
 A  O.k. I was with Glenn Littlebird in my BIA police unit, and Special Agents Williams and Coler in Williams' unit.
 Q  So two of you went in two separate cars?
 A  Yes.
 Q  Two Bureau of Indian Affairs' Agents, you and your fellow agent in your car, and Mr. Coler and Mr. Williams in one of their cars?
 A  That's correct.
 Q  Do you remember whose car it was as far as the agents?
 A  Williams'.
 Q  All right, Special Agent Williams' car?
 A  Yes.
 Q  All right. Now, when you arrived at the Wanda Siers' residence on the Jumping Bull property, would you indicate to the jury what you did, who did what?
 A  O.k. We got out of our police units, and we went up to the Wanda Siers' residence.
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 Q  Who specifically went to the Wanda Siers' residence?
 A  I and Glenn Littlebird, Special Agent Williams, and Coler.
 Q  All right. What, if anything, happened then?
 A  O.k. We went to the front door of the residence, and Special Agent Williams knocked and at this time Wanda Siers came to the door.
 Q  All right, and what, if anything, took place then?
 A  O.k. Special Agent Williams asked her if Jimmy Eagle was at the residence and advised her that we had an outstanding warrant for him, for his arrest.
 Q  And what, if anything, then happened?
 A  O.k. She advised that he hadn't been there for a couple of days, but we asked permission -- Special Agent Williams asked if we could look in her residence, and she said, "Go ahead, come on in," so we went in, made a search of the house, didn't make any contact.
 Q  What, if anything, did you find?
 A  Nothing. He wasn't there.
 Q  Your search was for Jimmy Eagle, is that correct?
 A  That's correct.
 Q  And was it just a general search in walking from room to room?
 A  Yes, it was.
 Q  What, if anything, did you observe while you were in the house itself?
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 A  O.k. There was just a real small --
 MR. TAIKEFF:  (Interrupting) Can't hear the witness, Your Honor.
 THE COURT:  Speak up, please.
 A  Real small house, just a two room house; and on the wall, on one of the walls there was two rifles hanging up; and I believe there was a flag, upside down flag.
 Q  (By Mr. Hultman) Was this out in plain view where anybody could see it upon entering the residence?
 A  Yes, it was.
 Q  Do you remember what the caliber or the make of either of the weapons were?
 A  O.k. one of them appeared to be a British-made rifle of some sort, and the other one was a smaller caliber, probably a .22.
 Q  Now, what, if anything, did you do then, did you exit the home upon not finding Jimmy Eagle?
 A  Yes, we did.
 Q  What, if anything, did you do then?
 A  O.k. we just walked along, walked behind the house. There was a shade that was built. Underneath the shade there was a bed, a cot. There was a young Indian male sleeping on this cot, and we woke him up; and this was John Nelson, call him "Dusty"; and Special Agent Williams asked him if he had seen Jimmy Eagle, and he advised "no", hadn't seen him for a couple of {661} days.
 Q  All right. What, if anything, did you do then?
 A  O.k., so went back around the house; and there was a small boy that was walking over towards the Siers' residence from the Jumping Bull residence, and we asked him if Jimmy Eagle was over there and he said "no", so we got in the car to leave.
 Q  All right. Did you observe anything in the direction from whence he came?
 A  Yes. There was approximately 12 persons came out of the Jumping Bull residence.
 Q  All right, so while you were outside at the Wanda Siers' residence and your two vehicles were there, you noticed the small boy coming from the direction of what residences in general?
 A  Jumping Bull.
 Q  All right, and you observed some additional people in the Jumping Bull residence area, is that correct?
 A  That's correct.
 Q  All right. Again on Government's Exhibit No. 71 would you show where you were, show from the direction that the young boy walked from, and where the group of people were that you are referring to so the jury will understand, on Exhibit 71?
 A  O.k. We were right here at this residence (indicating), and the young boy was out along here from this direction {662} (indicating).
 Q  And where were the group of people standing to which you have just referred to?
 A  They were coming out of the residence here (indicating).
 Q  Did they come out of the residence while you were there with the other agents?
 A  Yes, they did.
 Q  And what did they do?
 A  They were just standing there, just watching us.
 Q  All right, so they were looking in your direction then, is that correct?
 A  That's correct.
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and continued to look in your direction while you were there?
 A  Yes, they do.
 Q  Did you recognize any of these individuals?
 A  None of the males I recognized. Only one I recognized as Mrs. Jumping Bull.
 Q  Did you recognize whether or not they were native Americans or not?
 A  Yes, they were.
 Q  But you didn't recognize any of them individually except Mrs. Jumping Bull?
 A  No, I didn't.
 Q  Did the young man indicate anything to you in response to your question concerning Jimmy Eagle?
 A  He just said that he wasn't over there.
 Q  And so what if anything did you do then?
 A  We got in our cars and left.
 Q  And where did you go?
 A  We proceeded to the Oglala housing area.
 Q  Would you indicate on Government's Exhibit 71 again the route into Wanda Sear's residence that you took in coming in and the route that you took going back out.
 A  We came in on this road here (indicating). We got back to the highway and went toward Oglala on 18 (indicating).
 Q  Where did you then go in Oglala?
 A  Okay. We went to LaVette Little's residence in Oglala {664} housing.
 Q  Do you know whether or not she's related in any way to any of the occupants in the Wanda Sear's residence?
 A  No, I don't.
 Q  What if anything happened there at the Little residence in Oglala?
 A  We went directly to her residence and knocked on the door. It was just two small kids there, probably 11 and 10 years old, something like that, and we asked if LaVette was home. They advised that she wasn't and so we asked if Jimmy Eagle was there and they said, "No," that he was staying down at the Wallace Little residence.
 Q  One, the youngsters recognized the name that you asked about and also responded as to where he was staying or living, is that correct?
 A  That's correct.
 Q  And where was that place again, the residence of whom?
 A  Wallace Little, Senior.
 Q  And where is the residence of Wallace Little?
 A  That's back on down the road on 18.
 Q  Would you show us just approximately with relationship to Government's Exhibit 71 as to where it is with relationship to 71. Can you see it on Government's Exhibit 71?
 A  No, you can't.
 Q  Tell us then by using Government's Exhibit 71 approximately {665} where that home is located.
 A  It's about three or four miles from the Jumping Bull, four miles back (indicating).
 Q  If you continue down Highway 18 toward Pine Ridge, on which side of the highway is it? Is it on the same side as Jumping Bull's or on the opposite side of the highway?
 A  On the opposite side.
 Q  On the opposite side?
 A  Yeah.
 Q  All right.
 What if anything did you do next?
 A  We went to the Wallace Little residence and got out, knocked on the door and a young lady came to the door. She asked where, Special Agent Williams introduced himself and introduced ourselves and then we asked where Jimmy Eagle was and she said that he just left in the red pickup parked there?
 Q  She indicated to you that he had just left in a red pickup, is that correct?
 A  That's correct.
 Q  What if anything did you do next?
 A  Okay. So we got in our cars and we proceeded back to the Oglala housing, to the LaVette Little's. We talked about going back down there.
 Q  Is it customary for you to accompany an FBI agent, to accompany FBI agents when you are seeking to make an arrest of {666} this kind?
 A  Yes. We usually do. It's either the criminal investigators or an officer because we're familiar with the area, different on the reservation.
 Q  So you were operating in this instance, as you normally would, two of you were with two FBI agents, is that correct?
 A  Yes, it is.
 Q  What if anything did you do next?
 A  We went back down to the Oglala housing and we turned into the house, turned off of 18. As we passed the Oglala store there were three young male Indians walking down the road toward the highway.
 Q  Were you still traveling in the two cars, the same two you and your companion in your car and the two agents in the Agent Williams' car?
 A  Yes, we did.
 Q  Which car was in the lead, do you recall?
 A  We were.
 Q  You were.
 And what if anything then happened when you noticed the three Indian males?
 A  Okay. When we drove past them, one of them resembled Jimmy Eagle. So we went down further and turned around and we was going back. Meanwhile the Williams and Coler, they stopped in their vehicle. They stopped where the kids were walking. We {667}
turned around and went back and they got out of the vehicle.
 Q  What if anything did you observe at this time?
 A  Okay.
 This time I found out that none of them were Jimmy Eagle.
 Q  Was that from your observation at that particular moment?
 A  Yes, it was.
 Q  What else did you observe anybody else do or say at this particular time?
 A  Okay.
 Special Agent Williams got their names and who they were.
 MR. LOWE:  I cannot hear the witness, Your Honor.
 A  Special Agent Williams asked the three boys who they were and where they lived.
 Q  (By Mr. Hultman) All right. And did any of them respond? You say you didn't recognize any of the three, is that correct?
 A  No, I didn't.
 Q  To you knowledge had you ever seen any of them before?
 A  No, I didn't.
 Q  What response in your presence did any of them give in response to Agent Williams' question?
 A  I can't really remember their names but I think one said he was Yellow Horse and one Many Horses and I can't remember the {668} third.
 Q  What if anything did Agent Williams do in your presence at the time he asked the question as to what their names were and they responded?
 A  He wrote their names down on the tablet that they were carrying, that he was carrying. Wrote their names down.
 Q  Was this an ordinary tablet?
 A  Yes.
 Q  That we would all recognize?
 A  Yes.
 Q  I will show you what has been marked as Government's Exhibit 15 and ask you whether or not you generally recognize what appears here, if it appears to be something that you may have seen before?
 A  Yes, it does. Looks like the tablet with the names.
 Q  Do you recognize any names on there that are familiar in any way to the names that you heard on the occasion to which you were referring?
 A  Okay. David Many Horses and Mike Yellow Horse.
 Q  But you yourself don't know specifically that this is the particular piece of paper that was being written on that night, is that correct?
 A  That's correct.
 Q  That it appears to be and the reason is it appears to be the same kind of paper and two of the names are the same as on {669} that evening. All right.
 What if anything happened next?
 A  One of the males walking down the road, they had a towel or a jacket and in the jacket, they had it wrapped up and holding it. Special Agent Williams asked them --
 Q  Was that the word towel? Would you explain what the word normally means by towel?
 A  A towel. Wash cloth, towel, you towel. It was a towel. Appeared to be a towel.
 THE COURT:  You're going to have to speak up louder.
 Q  (By Mr. Hultman) And he asked, "What do you have in the towel," is that correct?
 A  That's correct.
 Q  What if any response was given at that time in your presence?
 A  The response was, "Nothing. I don't have nothing." And so Special Agent Williams said, "Let me see." So the person handed it to him and Special Agent Williams unwrapped it and inside was a clip that was full of ammo, rifle ammo.
 Q  You said earlier you had never seen these particular three individuals before, is that correct?
 A  That's correct.
 Q  Would you just generally describe them to the members of the jury as you recall them on that occasion?
 A  They were all Indian males, had long hair, long dark hair, {670} medium height, five four, five five, something like that. They were probably in their teens.
 Q  Now I'm going to show you at this time, I'm going to show you what has been marked previously as Government's Exhibit 69A and the only thing I want you to look at is the clip which is a part of Government's Exhibit 69A and ask you whether or not the object to which you have just referred that was in a towel carried by one of these three was similar in nature to that clip or magazine that is in Government's Exhibit 69A?
 A  Yes. It does, it resembles it.
 Q  There would be no way for you to know whether or not it is the exact one or not, is that correct?
 A  That's correct.
 Q  That was the only time that you saw it was that particular night.
 Now it was a clip itself and it was loaded with ammunition, is that correct?
 A  Yes, it was.
 Q  Now what if anything did you do next?
 A  Okay.
 At this time the three young males were placed in back of Williams' and Coler's FBI unit and were taken back to Pine Ridge because the Oglala officer was there and he was more familiar with everybody, so see if we could identify them.
 Q  How specifically in addition to Jimmy Eagle for whom there {671} was a warrant, there were at least three more individuals with warrants outstanding concerning that particular event, is that correct?
 A  That's correct.
 Q  Had one or more of those individuals been arrested at that particular time, if you know?
 A  I'm not sure.
 Q  In addition to these were there other warrants outstanding in your daily work that you were still looking for and in the course of your every day work?
 A  We have several outstanding tribal warrants for the tribal court there in Pine Ridge. I'm not sure if there are any other federal warrants that were outstanding.
 Q  And none of you could identify the three individuals, is that correct?
 A  That's correct.
 Q  So what if anything then happened once you got into Pine Ridge?
 A  Okay.
 I took investigator Little Bird back to the law and order office and dumped him off and proceeded to the police department there where Special Agent Coler was with the three young men.
 Q  What if anything happened there?
 A  Okay.
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 At this time all Officer Frank Two Bulls was there, he was the officer in the Oglala district at this time. We wanted to know if he knew any of the three subjects and he didn't know any of them.
 Q  So what if anything then did you agree to do?
 A  Okay Officer Two Bulls took him back to the Oglala area.
 Q  Or wherever they wanted to return to?
 A  (Witness nods affirmatively.)
 Q  Now was there anything else that happened that particular evening?
 A  We just went to a couple different residences there in Pine Ridge looking for Jimmy Eagle but he wasn't around.
 Q  Now I want to take you to the next morning then which is the 26th of June and ask you what assignment did you work on the next morning?
 A  The next morning I went to town, be about 30 miles east of Pine Ridge by the name of Batesland, South Dakota, and I went with the sheriff by the name of Gene Linehan, me and Glen Little Bird.
 Q  Were you given then subsequently that morning another assignment or a specific assignment?
 A  Yes, it was. Involved a break in, a burglary happened over there.
 Q  So in the meantime a burglary had happened and your supervisor the next morning sent you and your assistants {673} specifically to that particular burglary responsibility, is that correct?
 A  That's correct.
 Q  So you were no longer with Agents Coler or Williams?
 A  No, I wasn't.
 Q  Now what if anything happened which brought the matter that concerns us here in this courtroom further to your attention on that day?
 A  Could you rephrase your question.
 Q  Did you proceed to go to this other community with your fellow agent to investigate the new responsibility that had been given to you or the additional responsibility given you that morning?
 A  Yes. Myself and Glenn Little Bird went to Batesland with the sheriff out of Hot Springs.
 Q  About how far away did you say that was from Pine Ridge?
 A  Approximately 30 miles east of Pine Ridge.
 Q  And what if anything happened when you got there? What did you do once you got there?
 A  We went to the crime scene where the burglary or break in happened and talked to the owner of the property there concerning what was missing and gathering evidence and stuff and the owner advised us the guy at the co-op station might know who broke into his place.
 ++Q  At approximately what time of the morning on the 26th did {674} you arrive at the city and place that you just now had been discussing?
 A  Approximately 11:30.
 Q  And what if anything did you do next?
 A  Okay. After we got done there at the crime scene and talking to the owners of the place that got broke in, we were proceeding to go to the co-op station there and talk to the owner there.
 Q  And how far away was that approximately from the first place you had stopped?
 A  Just about a mile.
 Q  And what if anything did you do once you arrived at the co-op station?
 A  Well, we was going to talk to the owner there but we got a dispatch from a dispatcher in Pine Ridge and she was advising all units to return to Pine Ridge. So I called in and asked her, I said, "What's up," you know, "what's the traffic," and she said, "Can't advise you," that it was confidential. So we went to the co-op station there and called the police department.
 Q  And what if anything did you learn?
 A  The dispatcher advised me that the agents were under fire at Jumping Bull residence and so we went out and jumped in our vehicle and proceeded directly back to Pine Ridge.
 Q  At approximately how far away then from Jumping Bull's were you at the time that you talked to the dispatcher?
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 A  Approximately 40 miles.
 Q  Did you then proceed directly to Jumping Bull's or did you make any stop on the way?
 A  We went to Pine Ridge and went to the law and order office. I had my vehicle there and we had another BI unit there and got out and got in his unit.
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 Q  And approximately at what time would this have been?
 ++A  We stopped at Pine Ridge. This was, must have been a little after noon, after 12:00.
 Q  In that approximate period of time; is that right?
 A  Yes.
 Q  You didn't have any reason to check the time specifically; is that correct?
 A  No. We were just in a hurry to get to Jumping Bull's.
 Q  All right. What if anything did you do there?
 A  Where?
 Q  At Pine Ridge.
 A  Okay. We just got out of one unit and picked up my rifle and we put it in our other unit and we just jumped in and we took off.
 Q  What weapons did you have on you and with you at the time prior to arriving back at Pine Ridge?
 A  We just had my side arm, my 38.
 Q  All right. Where did you go then?
 A  Okay. We went directly to the, towards the Jumping Bull's --
 Q  Now, is that then going from Pine Ridge to Jumping Bull's down Highway 18 as represented in Government's Exhibit 71?
 A  Yes, it was.
 Q  All right. Now tell us what if anything happened as you approached the Jumping Bull property.
 A  Okay. When we arrived, this area up here (indicating), this {677} whole area here on 18 is a flat area and it starts about a quarter of a mile down farther. And since we hit this flat and started coming across this area here we started getting shot at from the Jumping Bull area.
 Q  All right. How did you become aware that you were being shot at?
 A  You could hear the bullets flying off the car. You could hear them being shot. We had our windows rolled down because it was hot and you could hear the bullets, you know, kind of like ricochet.
 Q  All right. Could you tell from the general direction where they were coming?
 A  Yes, we could.
 Q  And what general direction was that?
 A  Jumping Bull residence.
 Q  All right. Now, what if anything did you do?
 A  Okay. We just kept driving on the straight-away and we pulled into a turnoff about, be a quarter of a mile north of Jumping Bull.
 Q  And would you point out on Government's Exhibit 71 if you can approximately where it was that you pulled off of Highway 18.
 A  Okay. Approximately in this area right here (indicating).
 Q  All right.
 MR. HULTMAN:  Let the record show that he indicated the extreme left and general area of Highway 18 as it leaves {678} Government Exhibit 71.
 Q  (By Mr. Hultman) Now, what if anything did you see and observe at that time?
 A  Okay. At that time there was approximately four police units there and an ambulance.
 Q  All right. And what was the description of the ambulance, if you recall? Would you give the jury a description of the ambulance?
 A  Okay. It was a van that was used as an ambulance. A red light on top, brown in color. Just an ambulance that we used, you know, on the whole reservation as the ambulance service.
 Q  Now, is this the ambulance service that's generally known and generally used on the reservation as an ambulance?
 A  Yes, it is.
 Q  And generally recognizable by anyone?
 A  Yes.
 Q  All right. Now, let me ask you about Highway 18 there. As you came down Highway 18, is Highway 18, U.S. Highway 18 just like any other U.S. highway in that particular area?
 A  Yes, it is.
 Q  And so that you traveled down it like any one of us might travel down it on that particular day if we just happened to be driving on U.S. Highway 18?
 A  Yes.
 Q  And the bullets were coming across it as you came down {679} Highway 18 at you across from the Jumping Bull residence?
 A  Yes.
 Q  That area, all right.
 Now, what if anything did you do next?
 A  Okay. We got out of the unit and then we went up to the front to see what was happening, see what we could do, you know, see what they wanted us to do.
 And at this time Del Eastman, he was an agency special officer there, he got some guys together, four or five guys, something like that, and he took them around, it would be to the northeast, the residence, up a draw heave. He took them around.
 Q  All right. And what if anything did you do?
 A  Okay. I talked to one, one of the agents, I think audio visual division, and asked him, you know, who was in there. And he said he didn't know, he just said two of the agents, and that one of them was hit.
 And at this time another guy by the name of Billy Allen got about four or five guys together. I was included in this group. It was me and Frank Two Bulls, Phil Clifford, Ski Jacobs and Billy Allen.
 Q  And while you were there in this location that you've referred to was there any firing going on at that time?
 A  Yeah. It seems like several, there was several shots being fired from the area of the Jumping Bull Hall, Jumping Bull residence.
{680}
 Q  All right. And were they coming into the general area of where you were located and these other people that you've referred to?
 A  Yes, they were.
 Q  All right. Did you hear anything else, any other sounds during this period of time that you recall?
 A  There was also explosions, sounded like dynamite, something like that. A lot of explosions.
 Q  And where were they coming from, what general area?
 A  They were coming from the area of the Jumping Bull residence.
 Q  All right. What if anything then did you do with these other four or five individuals?
 A  Okay. We got back in my police unit. We got back on Highway 18 and went south of the residence. And there were shots every time a car would go across the flat, they would shoot at you and, you know, they shot at us again.
 And we went and pulled in, we went past the Jumping Bull residence approximately half a mile and we pulled off to the side road there and got out. And we proceeded to go up a draw, it would be southwest of the residence.
 Q  Now, with reference to Government Exhibit 71 and an area that is marked on that Government's exhibit as the tent area, and with relationship to Highway 18, could you show us somewhere beyond the exhibit approximately where it would be that you turned {681} off of Highway 18 and where you were located at the time you're now testifying to. Approximately how far beyond the exhibit would it be?
 A  It would be about a quarter of a mile right up in this area up here (indicating).
 Q  It would be about a quarter of a mile beyond the tent area?
 A  Yes.
 Q  All right. Along Highway 18; is that correct?
 A  Yes.
 Q  All right, fine. Thank you.
 Now, what if anything happened? How long approximately did you stay in that location?
 A  Okay. We just pulled off there and got out of our police unit and we went up a draw there. This little log house up on the hill there, right from where we pulled off, and so we went up to this house to see if it was occupied by anybody, and it wasn't.
 Q  Now, is that log house sitting out in an open area?
 A  Yes, it is.
 Q  Away from the woods and creek area?
 A  Yes. It is up on a flat where you i went cut across.
 Q  Is it a continuation of the flat area that's represented on Government's Exhibit 71 which runs from Highway 18 to generally where the ridge line falls? Is it a continuation of that flat area?
{682}
 A  Yes, it is.
 Q  And you can see for a considerable distance all the way along Highway 18; is that correct?
 A  Yes, that's true.
 Q  Because one, it's flat; and two, there's no vegetation in that area?
 A  Yes, sir.
 Q  In fact there's a lot of plowed area in that general vicinity?
 A  Most of the flat top was plowed, and there's a few hedges. But that's about it.
 Q  All right. Now, approximately how long did you stay in that area, in the general vicinity of the log house to which you are referring to now?
 A  We just checked out the log house there. There was nobody around, so we went down in a draw and we were attempting to go around to -- and come up on the other side of the Jumping Bull Hall, the opposite direction of where the other group went.
 Q  And what if anything happened there?
 A  Okay. We came out of, came around the draw there, and there was a flat area before you got to the trees and the creek and it was an opening, say, twenty-five yards or so.
 And we came around the draw there. We were attempting to starting to cross this, and we came upon heavy gunfire. So {683} we all hit the ground, pinned us down. And then we crawled to the wooded area and --
 Q  Now, with relationship to the area that's referred to on Government's Exhibit 71 as the tent area, where in relationship to you and the fire that you were receiving was the fire that you were receiving coming from in a general way?
 A  Okay. There's a bank that ran around before you get into the tree area and there was about four or five Indian males sitting on top of a bank here, and they were shooting at us.
 Q  It's generally beyond the tent area?
 A  Yes, it is.
 Q  To the south; is that correct?
 A  Yes, it is.
 Q  All right. Now, what if anything happened next?
 A  Okay. After they shot at us and pinned us down we crawled over to the wooded area for a little more cover; and Billy Allen, I remember he was saying, he said, "Well," he said "if they get above us, if they get up on the ridge there, we'll be sitting ducks, they'll have us," because there's no cover down there where we were.
 And so him and, it would be Ski Jacobs, they cut back across the open part there. And each time they ran across they'd get shot at. And they made it to the bank and went up on a hill.
 And then Frank and then Phil Clifford cut across and tried to get up on top and help them. And me and Frank Two Bulls {684} stayed down below.
 Q  All right. Approximately how long did you stay there then?
 A  Okay. We had been there about fifteen minutes, and then due to the lack of cover and stuff we backed off to another log house that was just about, say, fifty yards from the first one we went to. But this was down in the draw.
 Q  And is this farther away to the south than you were at that particular time? Did you move farther away to the south?
 A  Yes, we did.
 Q  All right. So that this would be moving at a greater distance from those individual that had brought you under fire?
 A  Yes.
 Q  All right. What if anything did you do next?
 A  Okay. We just waited down there st the log house and laid there approximately a couple, maybe a couple of hours. And this time here, constant shooting, you know, coming from the area of the Jumping Bull residence.
 And pretty soon Officer Phil Clifford came back down over the hill and he advised that Ski Jacobs and Billy Allen left after some radio equipment and he wanted Frank to go back, or one of us to go back on the hill with him. He thought they might try to take over his location, or the log house he was at.
 And so Frank went back up with him and I stayed down below, maybe another half hour, and then Frank came back down {685} and he advised me, he said the agents were, he said two agents had been killed, he said.
 Q  Now, about what time, just to the best off your approximation, would you venture a guess that this was in the afternoon?
 A  Between about 6:00 or 6:30.
 Q  All right. So you had been relatively then all the afternoon in the location of the first, the log house, and then the second log house to the south of the area that you had been referring to?
 A  Yes.
 Q  What if anything happened or came to your attention next?
 A  Okay. I decided to go back up on the hill where Officer Clifford and Two Bulls was. So I went back up to the other log house and we were just standing around there waiting for them to bring some radio equipment or something so we'd know what to do next.
 And at this time we just, looking in an area, and we were just looking around and we seen about 12 to 14 subjects going up the hillside. It would be clear across the road. So we asked, you know --
 Q  What sort of a distance was this?
 A  It's about a half a mile away.
 Q  So you were viewing some individuals on a hillside about a half a mile away?
 A  Yes.
{686}
 Q  All right. And what if, do you recall anything about them as far as a group other than just approximately how many were in the group? Do you remember anything else?
 A  Okay. You see, they were carrying rifles most of them had long hair and stuff and they were going up the hill.
 Q  All right. What if anything transpired next that you recall
 A  Okay. We asked Ski Jacobs, he was the captain that was with us, we said, "Well, should we try to fire a couple shots, see if we can pin them down?" And he said, "Go ahead." And so we fired off a couple of rounds and they laid down a couple of minutes and they fired back at us. And it was too far away, and so they got up and proceeded into the hills.
 Q  All right. Now, did you have an occasion then to return back to the Jumping Bull property that evening?
 A  Yes. About, say, twenty minutes after we seen the subjects going up into the hill we, I went back down to the roadblock, the south roadblock. They had a roadblock set up down across the bridge.
 At this time Glenn Little Bird, the guy that was working with us on detail, he called for my assistance at the Jumping Bull residence, him and Del Eastman. So I proceeded to the Jumping Bull residence.
 Q  And what if anything did you then do there?
 A  Okay. I got in with one of our officers, I believe it. Gerald Brown, He took me up to the residence, and when I got {687} out they wanted me to go over by the green, I think it's a green house there, and see if I can identify a body there.
 They thought at this time, one of the officers said to me, he said, "I think it's Little Joe Keelsrack." And I knew him real well because I went to school with him. I used to live in Porcupine and so I went over and looked, and there was a young Indian male laying down. He was laying face down. He had a green Army jacket on that has FBI on the back of it. And I looked at his face and I didn't know who he was.
 Q  You didn't recognize the individual at all?
 A  No, I didn't.
 Q  You never seen him before.
 Would you point out on Government's Exhibit 71 so that the jury might understand which house, as you refer to the green house that you're just referring to. Did you go view the body of the individual you've just referred to?
 A  It would be about the corner of this house here (indicating).
 Q  All right.
 MR. HULTMAN:  Let the record show that the witness has pointed out the green house as referred to as the green house on Government's Exhibit No. 71.
 Q  (By Mr. Hultman) Now, I'm going to show you what has been previously introduced into evidence here as Government's Exhibit No. 54, and in particular to page 16, and specifically photos B, C and D on page 16, and ask you whether or not you {688} recognize the scene that's portrayed there in those three photos?
 A  Yes. That was the body of the young man that was laying by the green house.
 Q  And is it generally a fair representation as something that you did observe during that period of time to which you are now testifying?
 A  Yes, it is.
 Q  And the jacket that the individual was wearing there, and it's Exhibit C, I think very fairly you can see over the pockets the words FBI. Is that the identification that you were just testifying?
 A  Yes, it is.
 Q  All right. Now, what if anything else did you do during the course of that evening?
 A  Okay. After I went over and looked at the body, then Little -- or Glenn Little Bird, Del Eastman called me down to the area where the agents car was parked. And so I went down there and Mr. Eastman wanted me to start drawing the crime scene.
 Q  And what if anything did you see there at that particular time? Did you see any automobiles or any objects of any kind?
{689}
 A  At this time I seen seen a white over tan Chevy, and had several bullet holes in it. The trunk was open, and laying, by the car was the bodies of Ron Williams and Jack Coler.
 Q  All right. I am going to show you now what has been marked as Government's Exhibit No. 54 and has previously been introduced as evidence here; and I would show you just the first photo. Photo No. 1, and ask you whether or not you have ever seen that before, and the objects that are portrayed there?
 A  Yes, I did.
 Q  And is that the occasion to which you are now testifying?
 A  Yes, sir.
 Q  And that is the car to which you have referred and the two bodies of the two agents to which you have just mentioned?
 A  Yes, sir.
 Q  What, if anything, further did you do that evening?
 A  And going down and looking at the bodies, just walked in the area in there, just kind of looking around for different evidence; and I walked probably 50 yards or 60 yards from the car, being in a south direction; and I found Ron Williams' checkbook, and there was a red light, assume it belonged to the vehicle.
 Q  All right. Would you point out on Government's Exhibit No. 71 the approximate location that you found the two objects to which you're just now testifying?
 A  O.k. It would be up in here (indicating).
{690}
 Q  And I am going to place a black "Y" at that particular point to identify it. Is that the approximate location you have just been pointing to?
 A  Yes.
 Q  All right. You may resume your seat, Mr. Ecoffey.
 Was it getting at this particular point fairly late in the evening?
 A  Yes, it was. It was getting dark, and Delmar Eastman wanted me to go back into Pine Ridge and pick up his 35 millimeter camera, so I went back to his residence and picked it up.
 Q  Was there anything further that you did that evening concerning this matter?
 A  No.
 MR. HULTMAN:  Thank you. Mr. Ecoffey, I have no further questions.
 MR. TAIKEFF:  May we have a moment, your Honor, please?
 THE COURT:  You may.
 (Counsel confer.)
 MR. TAIKEFF:  May I inquire, your Honor?
 THE COURT:  You may inquire.
 CROSS EXAMINATION
By MR. TAIKEFF:
 Q  Mr. Ecoffey, you said you heard some explosions that afternoon?
{691}
 A  Yes, that's true.
 Q  How many?
 A  Approximately four or five, I am not sure.
 Q  What time of day?
 A  This would be right after I got there, about 12:30 quarter to 1:00.
 Q  Is it accurate to say that from the time you got there until you left -- withdraw that.
 Is it accurate to say that from the time you got there until about 7:00 o'clock at night, there was firing go on, gunshots all afternoon?
 A  Yes, sir.
 Q  Could you say at what time the last shots were fired?
 A  Well, I can't really remember what time the last one was.
 Q  Could you put it in terms of when it got dark, how much before it got dark?
 A  Maybe a couple of hours, not very positive about it.
 Q  What time did it get dark that night?
 A  Be about 6:00, about 7:00, 7:30.
 Q  This was in June, was it not?
 A  Yes, it was.
 Q  Is it not a fact that the longest day of the year is June 21?
 A  I don't know.
 Q  Is it not a fact that it got dark that night about 8:30, {692} 9:00 o'clock"
 A  I am not sure.
 Q  Well, you said you thought it got dark about 6:30 or 7:00, did you not?
 A  Yes, I did.
 Q  Just a few moments ago?
 A  Yes, I did.
 Q  And you said shooting went on until 7:00 o'clock, isn't that correct?
 A  I said I wasn't sure what time the last shot was fired.
 Q  But you agreed it was somewhere in the vicinity of 7:00 o'clock?
 MR. HULTMAN:  Well, I object, your Honor. The question has been asked and answered to the best of the ability of this witness.
 Q  (By Mr. Taikeff) Did you not before say --
 THE COURT:  (Interrupting) He may answer.
 A  I just said a couple of hours, few hours before.
 Q  My question was, specific question was, did you not say three minutes ago that you thought that the shooting continued on until 7:00 o'clock?
 A  Yeah.
 Q  And didn't you say that you thought it got dark around {693} 6:30?
 MR. HULTMAN:  Well now, I object, your Honor. Counsel himself has indicated it gets dark about 9:00 o'clock in the question he has asked. The witness said approximately two hours before darkness. Counsel says it is 7:00 o'clock, and that's what the witness has said.
 I offer at this time the question has been asked and answered. It is clear in everybody's mind, it is an attempt on the part of counsel to confuse the witness.
 MR. TAIKEFF:  Your Honor, I wonder who is testifying, Mr. Hultman or the witness?
 THE COURT:  Do you understand the question?
 THE WITNESS:  Yes, I do.
 THE COURT:  Very well. You may answer.
 THE WITNESS:  Rephrase the question.
 MR. TAIKEFF:  Yes, I will.
 Q  (By Mr. Taikeff) Do you mind if I ask it over again just the way I asked it before?
 Didn't you say that you thought it got dark around 6:30 or 7:00 o'clock?
 A  Yes, that's the time I thought.
 Q  Now, is it a fact, or is it not a fact, that the shooting went on until it was almost dark?
 A  No. I said a few hours before.
 Q  Were you able to determine by your own personal {694} observations various places from which shooting was coming or was occurring?
 A  What was the last part of the question again?
 Q  Or where shooting was occurring, could you tell from sight or sound where shots were being fired from?
 A  At which time?
 Q  In the course of the afternoon, various times.
 A  Yes, I could.
 Q  Would you be kind enough to take that pointer and show the Court and jury one place at a time where you, based on your own personal observations, were aware that shooting was occurring; and after you show us a place, I will have to describe it for the record so pause for a moment.
 A  O.k. Shooting coming from this area right in her (indicating).
 MR. TAIKEFF:  All right. The witness is pointing to the area of the residences at the Jumping Bull compound.
 Q  (By Mr. Taikeff) Any other place or places?
 A  No. Just at the time we went up here (indicating) there was fire; and when we went across the entrance there (indicating).
 Q  Now, this place you just pointed to was in the upper right-hand corner of Exhibit 71. Where was the firing coming from when you were in the upper right-hand corner?
 A  The firing was coming from up here on the ridge, right up {695} here (indicating).
 Q  Is that place on the chart?
 A  No.
 Q  How much above the chart would it be, using the same scale?
 A  Well, it would be a quarter of a mile, a third of a mile.
 Q  A quarter of a mile would be about 1200 feet, you see the scale over there?
 A  Um-hum.
 Q  That's 500 feet, that's about a tenth of a mile?
 A  O.k.
 Q  Can you put it in terms of how many units, such as the scale there, above the chart?
 A  Say another two more.
 Q  So about a thousand feet above the top edge of the chart?
 A  Above this there (indicating).
 Q  All right. Now, that's where firing was coming from?
 A  Well, you could see it, could see who was shooting.
 Q  I am trying to find out the location from which the firing was coming, not where you were. Do you understand that question?
 A  Yes.
 Q  Do you understand that?
 A  Yes.
 Q  Now, you are saying that firing came from a point perhaps as much as a thousand feet above the top of the chart?
 A  Yes.
{696}
 Q  Could you tell how many separate guns were being fired from up there?
 A  No, I can't.
 Q  Were you able to determine in which way those shots were being fired, in which direction those shots were being fired?
 A  Yes. The bullets hitting all around us.
 Q  Where were you at that particular time?
 A  Right -- we was right up there (indicating), in that area there.
 Q  In the area of Tent City?
 A  No, up farther.
 Q  How much north of -- I am sorry -- how much east of Tent City? East is the top of the chart.
 A  It would be about a thousand yards.
 Q  That's where you were?
 A  Yes.
 Q  But didn't you say that's where the shooting was coming from?
 A  No, I didn't.
 Q  Well then, tell us where the shooting was coming from when you were a thousand feet north of Tent City.
 A  The shooting was coming from a thousand feet from here (indicating). We were down by the -- about a quarter -- about 150 yards from where the shooting was coming from.
 Q  O.k. The shooting was between you and Tent City?
{697}
 A  Yes.
 Q  And you estimate that the shooting came from a position maybe a thousand feet beyond Tent City in an easterly direction, and you were further east of that point?
 A  About 150 yards, yes.
 Q  Did you see any of the people who were doing that shooting?
 A  Well, we could see them from 150 yards away.
 Q  How many people were there?
 A  Four or five.
 Q  What time of day was that?
 A  This was about a quarter to 1:00.
 Q  Any other people that you saw shooting or any other locations from which you saw shots fired?
 A  No, there isn't.
 Q  Now, what time was it that you saw 12 to 14 people on the hillside?
 A  O.k. This was around -- must have been around 6:00, 6:30.
 Q  Was each of them carrying a gun?
 A  I know several of them was carrying guns. I don't know if each individual had any.
 Q  Now, you say that on the evening of the 25th you went with the agents looking for Jimmy Eagle, am I right about that?
 A  Yes, you are.
 Q  And you told us that you went to a house in the Jumping Bull area and that you spoke with a woman by the name of Wanda {698} Siers, is that correct?
 A  That's correct.
 Q  Who told you her name?
 A  O.k. At the time --
 Q  (Interrupting) The question is "who".
 A  One of my officers.
 Q  And when?
 A  This was at a later date.
 Q  How late a date?
 A  Oh, a few weeks.
 Q  So when you spoke with her you didn't know her name?
 A  No, I didn't.
 Q  And do you in fact know that her name is Wanda Siers?
 A  Yes, I do.
 Q  How do you know?
 A  Because this officer told me that she was Wanda Siers.
 Q  But other than that do you have any way of knowing that she was Wanda Siers?
 A  Just that I believe the officer who told me.
 MR. TAIKEFF:  I move to strike the testimony that it was Wanda Siers on the basis that it is pure hearsay.
 MR. HULTMAN:  Well, if it please the Court, there is other evidence and there will be substantial evidence that this is the home in which she lives.
 MR. TAIKEFF:  I haven't heard that evidence yet, your {699} Honor.
 THE COURT:  You did not personally know that that was Wanda Siers?
 THE WITNESS:  At the time?
 THE COURT:  Yes.
 THE WITNESS:  No, I didn't.
 THE COURT:  The motion is granted. It will be stricken.
 Q  (By Mr. Taikeff) Earlier on your direct examination you were shown the rifle which I am holding which is Plaintiff's Exhibit 69-A. I am placing it before you on the witness stand.
 Prior to today, when did you last see that rifle?
 A  I don't think I actually seen a rifle, it is just the clip.
 Q  You never saw that rifle?
 A  No.
 Q  Are you familiar with weapons, generally speaking?
 A  I am not expert, but I know a few.
 Q  You have some familiarity with them?
 A  Yes.
 Q  Could you see from looking at this weapon what it is, what kind of rifle?
 A  Well, my father used to own a British rifle that was like that.
 Q  Did you see this rifle inside that house?
 A  I can't say it was that rifle. I seen one resembling that.
{700}
 Q  Well, I don't ask you whether it is the identical rifle, but I ask you whether you saw a rifle in that house which looks substantially like this one.
 A  Something like that, yes.
 Q  Well, when you say "something like that" --
 MR. HULTMAN:  (Interrupting) I object, your Honor. This question has now been asked for the third time, and this witness has given a fair and accurate response to counsel's question; and I object to this as highly repetitious. The question has been asked and answered. At no time on direct examination did this witness indicate in any way that he had any knowledge of this particular weapon, only the clip, and one which resembled it.
 THE COURT:  I think the witness has answered the question. Sustained.
 Q  (By Mr. Taikeff) Did you see any guns in that house?
 A  Yes, I did.
 Q  Describe the guns that you saw.
 A  O.k. One was a smaller rifle, like a .22, and one looked like a British rifle.
 Q  What do you mean when you say a "British rifle"?
 A  One that resembled the rifle there.
 Q  The one that I just showed you?
 A  Um-hum.
 Q  Now, when you saw the clip that young person had with him, {701} did you know what caliber bullets were in that?
 A  No, I didn't know.
 Q  How old is Jimmy Eagle?
 A  I am not sure, approximately 20, 21 years old, something like that.
 Q  How old were those young people whom you encountered on the night of the 25th?
 A  I don't know. I don't know.
 Q  How old did they look to you?
 A  Late teens, 18, 19 years old.
 Q  As of June, 1975, for how long had you known Jimmy Eagle?
 A  Well, I can't really say exact, but I used to go to school with him.
 Q  Would it be fair to say that if you saw him at that time, you would recognize him?
 A  Yes.
 Q  What was the location of the place where you encountered those three young people?
 A  O.k. This was on the road coming out of Oglala housing, right past the Oglala store.
 Q  And how far is that location from the BIA jail?
 A  Oh, 13 miles.
 THE COURT:  Mr. Taikeff, we will recess at this time until 9:00 o'clock tomorrow.
 Members of the jury, I just remind you that you are {702} not to discuss the case and must keep an open mind and not reach any decisions.
 The Court is in recess.
 (Whereupon, at 5:00 o'clock, p.m., the trial of the within cause was adjourned until 9:00 o'clock, a.m., on Tuesday, March 22, 1977.)

{SEE ALSO OGLALA GRASSROOTS..CURRENT}