US vs LEONARD PELTIER TRIAL TRANSCRIPT EXCERPTS Case Number CR77-3003

MICHAEL ROOK, LIVES TO THE SOUTH OF JUMPING BULL
{BENCH} DISCUSSION ON ALLEGED CRIMES OF OTHER PEOPLE AS TESTIMONY  B
RESUME TESTIMONY  C

MICHAEL ROOK, being first duly sworn, testified as follows:
 DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. CROOKS
 MR. CROOKS:  Would you again give your full name for the record, please.
{447}
 A  Michael D. Rooks.
 Q  Mr. Rooks, where do you live?
 A  Oglala, south of Oglala. Three miles south of Oglala.
 A  A few miles south of Oglala?
 A  South of Oglala.
 Q  And that is on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, is it not?
 A  Yes. It is.
 Q  You again are appearing here pursuant to a Government Subpoena, are you not?
 A  Yes, sir.
 Q  Mr. Rooks, are you familiar with the area which has been referred to by the various witnesses as the Jumping Bull Compound or the Harry Jumping Bull residence?
 A  Yeah.
 Q  And would you turn around in your witness chair and look at the large map, Exhibit 71, and see if you can identify that area?
 A  Yeah.
 Q  And what is that area?
 A  This one right here?
 Q  Yes. Where the green stickers are pointing to, what does that area depict to you?
 A  That's the Jumping Bull's house around there.
 Q  And that would be the principal residence of the Jumping Bulls?
{448}
 A  Yes, sir.
 Q  How long -- well, let me ask if you would, from this area that's depicted on this map, principally the Jumping Bull houses, where is your home located from that, those residence?
 A  About -- it isn't on the map.
 Q  Well, let me get you a pointer. If you could just come down, Mike, and indicate generally to the jury where your houses would be with reference to the Jumping Bull houses.
 A  Right here.
 Q  So it would be in an area off of the map, more or less south of the area that's marked tents?
 A  Yeah.
 Q  Okay. You can get back on the --
 Insofar as your farm is concerned, would you just generally describe a little bit about what kind of a farm it is, what the setup is in your farm.
 A  Kind of just starting out now, you know, building the place up.
 Q  Pardon? I'm not picking you up either, Mike.
 A  Just kind of building the place up.
 Q  You're just building it up?
 A  Yeah.
 Q  How long have you and your family lived there?
 A  Since I was about fifth grade. I graduated about '68, '69.
{449}
 Q  Okay. And I don't know that I asked you, what is your age now?
 A  Eighteen.
 Q  Eighteen. And so you've lived there since you were roughly around in the fifth grade?
 A  Yes.
 Q  And I might also ask you, are you a member, an enrolled member of the tribe of the Pine Ridge Reservation?
 A  Yes.
 Q  And all members of your family are enrolled members?
 A  Yes.
 Q  Now the Jumping Bulls, have they lived in this area more or less as long as you remember?
 A  Yeah. They've been there alot longer than I have. I mean, they were born and raised there, around that area.
 Q  So they would have lived there prior to your family moving across the creek?
 A  Yeah.
 Q  All right. And from the time that you moved in there have you more or less had intermittent contact with them, neighborly contact?
 A  Yeah.
 Q  And insofar as the Jumping Bulls are concerned, was there anyone that lived in their area during the years you've lived there other than Mr. and Mrs. Jumping Bull themselves?
{450}
 A  Them and some members of the family like their grandchildren and daughters. Not right there, you know, but in the general vicinity.
 Q  All right. So what you're saying is other members of their family from time to time would occupy other houses in that area?
 A  Yeah.
 Q  All right. Calling your attention back to May of 1976, during that period of time did you notice other people moving into this area?
 A  Yes.
 Q  Excuse me. I'm sorry. '75.
 During 1975 there were other people that moved into the area?
 A  Yes, sir.
 Q  And do you know exactly where these people lived?
 A  Not right around there but off in other buildings around there.
 Q  And during the period of time that, that you, we'll say of May of '76, or '75, excuse me, during that period of time were there a good number of people that you observed in this area that were strangers to you?
 A  I really couldn't tell you numbers but there, because I really didn't have no reason to be going up there all the time.
 But from the times I was there I seen people, you know, {451} that I'd think, "What are they doing there," you know.
 Q  People that you wouldn't know as being local community members?
 A  Yeah. Kind of; yeah.
 Q  All right. All right. Then going back into the time that these people were, other strangers were living in the area, did you make any observations with regard to them such as any unusual noises, anything of that nature?
 A  Lots of shooting in the creek bottom down there.
 Q  And where would this be from the Jumping Bull house?
 A  Well, I really couldn't pinpoint it but I didn't think it was right at the house, you know. The shooting was, I thought it was taking place like around where it says plowed field and up around there.
 Q  Okay. Let me get the pointer for you.
 A  I can't really be sure about that. I just figured that's where it was coming from.
 Q  Well, I realize that. I'd like you to give me some general indication, if you can, as to the general area where you heard a lot of shooting coming from.
 A  Right in there.
 Q  It would be up against this bluff around the plowed field, in that area?
 A  That is my guess; yeah.
 Q  And would this be from your hearing shots and so forth as {452} opposed to actually seeing any shooting done?
 A  Yeah.
 Q  All right. When you were living in this area and the strangers were there, did you see any signs of, of a camp at any time?
 A  Around what time? You mean like in the spring or right before it happened?
 Q  Well, I'm talking about before the shooting; right.
 A  Not what they refer to as tent city. I kind of stayed away from there, you know.
 Q  You stayed away from the tent city area?
 A  I mean I didn't even know it was there. I just kind of stayed away from the whole --
 Q  Did you go into that area after the shootings?
 A  Not into the tent city.
 I went to where there was a sweat bath, right around in there.
 Q  Okay. So you went down in that area after the shooting?
 A  Yeah. Just once.
 Q  All right. During the evenings at any time could you see activity over in the area where the tents turned out to be?
 A  Not the tents but that one sweat bath, that one little camp there, we could see like --
 Q  Okay. What kind of activity could you see around there?
 A  I don't recall that. You just kind of see movements in the {453} trees or, I mean just, you know, they had a fire down there and you could tell that there were people camping down there.
 Q  So the record is clear, Mike, you are talking about an area which would be just about straight south of the tent area; would that be about right?
 A  That would be southwest, southwest, wouldn't it?
 Q  Okay. A little southwest of the tent area. All right.
 Mike, I'd like to show you what has been marked for identification purposes as Exhibit 69A. I ask you to take that and keep it pointed up if you would and I'd ask you if you can identify that.
 A  Yes. This is, this was my dad's gun.
 Q  And your father owned this gun?
 A  Yes, sir.
 Q  And where was this gun kept?
 A  At the time it was stolen it was sitting in the corner by the stove in our house.
 Q  In your house. All right.
 You indicated that this gun was stolen.
 A  Yes, sir.
 Q  Approximately when was it stolen?
 A  May 1st.
 Q  On May 1st. And was anything else stolen other than this gun?
 A  There was seven guns altogether and a TV, there was a {454} stereo and cameras and just anything that was worth anything.
 Q  All right. Again I'm having a little trouble staying with 75 and 76.
 You're talking about May of 1975?
 A  '75; yeah.
 Q  All right. You indicated some other household items were stolen, --
 A  Yes.
 Q  -- is this correct? And what would you estimate the total value of those items that were stolen?
 A  The FBI said, I think --
 Q  Well, no. Don't say what they said. What your estimate is.
 A  My estimate?
 Q  Yes.
 A  I'm not -- I know it was over $1500 worth but I, it was either 1500 or 3,000, something like that.
 Q  So there was a substantial number of items stolen from your family home?
 A  Yes.
 Q  And this was one item?
 A  Yeah.
 Q  And how can you identify that?
 A  Because I sanded the front and I put some stain on it but it didn't look too good so I didn't do it to the back.
{455}
 Q  And this stock that's on there, has that had some work done on it by you?
 A  Yeah. See, the back is rough and it still has the same finish and the front is different.
 Q  Is there any doubt in your mind that that's your gun?
 A  No doubt.
 Q  All right. This gun was stolen in May of 1975?
 A  '75.
 Q  And when did you next see the gun?
 A  Day before yesterday.
 Q  When the FBI at my suggestion showed it to you, --
 A  Yes.
 Q  -- is that correct? What, by the way, what caliber rifle is this, Mike?
 A  303 British.
 Q  And that is a British gun, is that correct?
 A  Probably; yeah.
 Q  Well, at least that's the name of it, a 303 British?
 A  Yes. The caliber name of it.
 Q  Do you know where your father got this gun?
 A  Sharp's Corner.
 Q  And how long had he owned it?
 A  About seven, eight years.
 Q  Seven, eight years before it was stolen?
 A  Yeah.
{456}
 Q  When this theft took place were any tracks left by the people that stole your family's property?
 A  Yes, sir.
 There was some tracks from the house to the corral and that's where they ended.
 Q  Well, which corral?
 A  Right below the house. It would be east of the house about fifty yards I suppose.
 Q  Now is this your corral or is this --
 A  This is our corral.
 Q  Your corral. That is not the same corral that's shown on this map?
 A  No. It isn't. That's the wrong place.
 Q  All right. And then what did you find at the corral?
 A  Just, you know, well, there was horse tracks in there but we have horses and stuff too so I didn't think nothing of it, you know.
 Q  Okay.
 A  And I got to thinking later and that's my --
 Q  So they found no tracks other than horse tracks leading away from the corral?
 A  You know, the gates were still closed, you know, the entrances, the one leading to our house, they were all still closed and no tracks were up there.
 Q  Okay. Now calling your attention back to May of 1975 did {457} you see any people down in the Jumping Bull area that you knew or identified?
 A  Yeah. I seen a few that I'd known.
 Q  And who were these individuals that you saw down there that you knew?
 A  Well, just the ones that I knew were like Jimmy Dean Moosecamp and Jimmy Eagle and Leon Eagle.
 Q  Now Jimmy Eagle and Leon Eagle, are they brothers?
 A  They're brothers; yeah.
 Q  And have you known those guys for some period of time?
 A  Yeah.
 Q  Did you go to school with either of them?
 A  I went to school with Jimmy Dean Moosecamp and then Jimmy Eagle and Leon Eagle, they went to another school.
 Q  Okay.
 A  But I lived on the same street as they did before we moved out in the country. We lived right by them.
 Q  And where abouts was it that you saw the Eagle brothers?
 A  At --
 Q  Just point out generally on the map if you could.
 A  Around in there.
 Q  So it would be generally in a northwesterly direction from the Jumping Bull residence?
 A  Yes, sir.
 Q  And it would be down by the creek area?
{458}
 A  Yeah. Up from the dam on the creek.
 Q  There is a dam down there, isn't there, Mike?
 A  Yes, sir.
 Q  And where is that? Is that shown on the picture or is it quite a bit farther down?
 A  That would be quite a bit farther down and just around there is this general marsh area.
 Q  So the dam would be more or less where the exhibit sticker is or maybe a little bit farther out than that?
 A  Yeah. Around in there; yeah.
 Q  Toward the Oglala area?
 A  Yeah.
 Q  Now on the day that this shooting took place, June 26th of 1975, what were you doing that day?
 A  Just sitting in the house, you know, just, maybe walking around the house every once in a while.
 Q  All right. Did you hear anything unusual that day?
 A  Lots of, not really unusual but I heard some more gunshots.
 Q  It wasn't unusual for that area apparently?
 A  Not really unusual; no.
 Q  You described gunfire coming from the area. Approximately when did you hear the gunfire start?
 A  About midday, around there, you know, 11:00, 11:30, 12:00. I wasn't really paying attention to the time.
 Q  So it would be roughly in the noon, --
{459}
 A  Yeah.
 Q  -- somewhere around noon that the shooting started?
 A  Yeah.
 Q  And how long did the shooting last that day as you recall, Mike?
 A  I'm not really sure just, oh, maybe an hour or quarter or half hour, something like that.
{460}
 Q  (By Mr. Crooks) Was there a lot of shooting that you recall?
 A  At that time there was a lot of shooting, died out maybe.
 Q  So it would die off, and then there would be shooting again; and then it would die off, intermittent shooting?
 A  Yes.
 Q  Did you see any of the individuals that have been involved in the shooting, I mean see any activity over there?
 A  No, sir.
 Q  Could you see that area from your farm?
 A  Oh, from my house you can see something -- Jumping Bull, their house, and you can see Jumping Bull Hall, not real good in the summertime because there is leaves on the trees and everything.
 Q  You don't really have a good view of any of that area then?
 A  Not really.
 Q  You didn't really see anything that was occurring over there?
 A  No.
 Q  Did you see any individuals leaving the area might have come by your property?
 A  No.
 MR. TAIKEFF:  Objection to the form of the question because it includes the speculation "might have come from {461} some place".
 THE COURT:  The objection is sustained.
 MR. CROOKS:  Well, the answer I think is "no", anyway.
 Q  (By Mr Crooks) All right. On the day of the shooting did you stay home all day that day, or did you leave at some point?
 A  I had a pickup at the house, but then I didn't have no keys to it so my brother had to come out to the house in another car and give me the keys for the pickup and come into town that day.
 Q  What time did you leave?
 A  1:30, 2:00, something like that.
 Q  1:30, 2:00 o'clock you left and didn't come back until later?
 A  I didn't come back until the next day. I stayed in town. Left me in town that night.
 Q  Do you know the Defendant in this case, Mr. Peltier?
 A  No, sir.
 Q  Ever seen the individual sitting over there before?
 A  No, sir.
 Q  During the -- excuse me. Did I cut off your answer?
 A  Unh-unh.
 Q  All right. Have you seen Mr. Peltier before, either in the Jumping Bull area or anywhere else?
{462}
 A  I don't think I have. I can't recall.
 Q  As far as you know you have never seen him?
 A  No.
 MR. CROOKS:  We have nothing further.
 MR. TAIKEFF:  Your Honor, could we approach the bench?
 THE COURT:  You may.
 (Whereupon the following proceedings were had at the bench:)
 MR. TAIKEFF:  Your Honor, I am quite sensitive to his desire to adhere to the work schedule that was set out. If the Government would not object I would be amenable to this witness stepping down and the next witness getting on preferably -- or hopefully it will be a short witness; and then during the half hour recess from 3:00 to 3:30 I can prepare the cross examination and there won't be any change in schedule. It will be, just a change in the order of activity. I don't think it will be a very long cross examination, but I do feel obligated to go through the materials which I just got.
 MR. CROOKS:  I don't know that I agree with that. I would rather have the break now and let them look it over and continue. I don't want the witness' direct to get separated from the cross. I would rather take a break now and look at it than split it up. I think it becomes very confusing to the jury.
{463}
 MR. TAIKEFF:  We hope the jury has a better recollection than that.
 THE COURT:  What witness -- what is your next witness, is he going --
 MR. HULTMAN:  (Interrupting) That's another problem. I think we are going to be faced with the same situation. We would get about 10 minutes on the next witness and have to cut that one off and go back to this one, have another break.
 MR TAIKEFF:  We could solve both of them with a half hour recess.
 THE COURT:  I will declare a half hour recess 15 minutes earlier than I usually do, trying to get this thing done.
 MR. CROOKS:  That is all right.
 MR. TAIKEFF:  Your Honor, could I raise another point at this particular time? I don't consider what happened in connection with this witness particularly serious as far as the specific contents is concerned; but I suspect that there is a certain insensitivity on the part of the prosecution to introducing into this case proof or possible proof of other crimes that are totally unnecessary to prove their case and totally irrelevant. For instance, the fact that that rifle was stolen in May and this person lived on the premises which was adjacent to the tent city {464} area raises the suggestion at the very least that someone in that encampment in tent city was either responsible for the theft or had purchased stolen property.
 Now, I understand from Mr. Ellison who has been keeping track of evidentiary matters for us, that this rifle was recovered in New Mexico. Apparently there will be some effort to place it in the encampment, and I think if that was the Government's purpose, then they would become sensitive to the fact that we are very concerned this case might be decided on some prejudicial basis rather than some relevant fact.
 It would be very simple if the Government could indicate to us that it has some problem with its proof and that without offering such evidence cannot show the geographic nexus which is theirs, at least give us an opportunity to avoid the kind of problem we have here. This is a rather simple thing. This is perhaps an even more -- an unimportant theft, but if the Government is not conscious of this problem, then we may end up at a later date with an application for a mistrial, and I don't want to try this case again any more than the Government wants to try it again; and I would ask them most respectfully, and I am being serious and respectful about this, to give some thought to these matters.
 MR. CROOKS:  Your Honor, Mr. Taikeff completely {465} miscomprehend the purpose of this showing, that we have no doubt that this rifle was traced back to this camp; and we are going to tie it up with both physical and oral testimony.
 MR. TAIKEFF:  Most assuredly, the fact it was stolen from a nearby location --
 MR. CROOKS:  (Interrupting) Can I finish? One at a time, I believe.
 MR. TAIKEFF:  I am sorry.
 MR. CROOKS:  We certainly contend that the weapon is tied to the crime scene, tied to shell casings and so forth; and certainly, the very fact that Mr. Peltier and his group are out stealing the next-door neighbor's guns, I think has a very direct bearing on his state of mind; and we certainly don't back off of that issue at all. I think we have covered that in our brief, and we certainly are willing to meet that head on.
 MR. TAIKEFF:  Well, your Honor, that supports at least my contention to a mathematical certainty.
 THE COURT:  Well, I assume that you are going to tie this up?
 MR. CROOKS:  We definitely are, your Honor, no question about it.
 MR. TAIKEFF:  The fact of the theft has no relevancy. If this gun was in that area, it was in an area. If it was {466} used that day it was used that day. The fact that it may have been stolen was not an issue. The Government repeatedly fails to recognize what it is they are supposed to prove here and what it is they are not permitted to prove.
 MR. CROOK:  Your Honor, the circumstances under which Mr. Rooks' gun got into this crime scene has a direct bearing on Mr. Peltier's state of mind, and I don't equivocate on that at all.
 MR. TAIKEFF:  Your Honor, I assume, and I think I am assuming correctly, there is going to be further nexus between that theft and the presence of that gun there one month or 26 days later.
 Now, if this were a possession of stolen property case, and that were the Government's proof, I dare say the Court would grant a Rule 29 motion. This is not that kind of a case. This is a murder case, at least step removed from that:  and it would be irrelevant to introduce to the jury the fact that this gun which was used -- which raises its own set of issues -- was a stolen gun. It is a proof of another crime that is wholly unrelated to the issues in this case.
 THE COURT:  Well, there is nothing for me to rule on at this moment.
 MR. TAIKEFF:  I understand. I am just trying to {467} apprise the Court and the Government at this stage so there cannot be a misunderstanding about the position of the defense in regard to evidence of this character.
 I will, in fact, move to strike that portion of the testimony that refers to the theft -- not as an instruction to the jury -- just so the Government will be deprived of arguing that fact to the jury.
 THE COURT:  I will reserve a ruling on that motion.
 MR. TAIKEFF:  Thank you, your Honor.
 (Whereupon, the following proceedings were had in the courtroom in the presence and hearing of the jury:)
 THE COURT:  Normally we go until 3:00 o'clock to recess. Because of a problem in the presentation of the evidence, we will recess at this time; and we will take a little longer recess than we did this morning. The Court will recess until 3:20.
 (Recess taken.)
{468}
 (Whereupon, the following proceedings were had out of the hearing of the jury:)
 THE COURT:  Are you now ready to proceed?
 MR. TAIKEFF:  Yes, Your Honor. I just want to report one thing to the Court but that doesn't change the answer I gave to the Court. The Grand Jury material was missing a page and Mr. Sikma has gone to look for that page. Although I can begin, I don't know whether I can finish until that page is delivered. I suspect everything will work out all right.
 THE COURT:  The jury may come in.
 (Whereupon, the following proceedings were had in the courtroom in the hearing and presence of the jury:)
 THE COURT:  You may proceed.
 MR. TAIKEFF:  Thank you, Your Honor.
 CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR.TAIKEFF:
 Q  Mr. Rooks, do you know of your own personal knowledge who stole those guns from your father's house? Yes or no.
 A  Personally?
 Q  Yes.
 A  No.
 Q  And do you know of your own personal knowledge what happened to those guns; namely, who had them after the theft took place?
 Q  No.
 Q  Do I understand that at or about the time of the theft {469} you discovered horse tracks in the area?
 A  No. Horse tracks were, because we have horses, I told you. Could have been ours. I didn't think nothing of the horse tracks.
 Q  Those horse tracks as far as you're concerned had nothing to do with that theft?
 A  I'm, I didn't think nothing of that. That could have rode up on horse, you know, and, or whatever, you know, but there was tracks from the house to the corral and that's where he stopped.
 Q  I see.
 But you had no specific reason to believe that those horse tracks had anything to do with the theft, do you?
 A  They had to be. How would they got away? Why would the tracks go from our house to the corral? No tracks in any member of the family and stop to the corral and that's as far as it goes. Can't fly away.
 Q  There were no tracks after the corral?
 A  You mean foot tracks?
 Q  Horse tracks.
 A  Horse tracks. Yeah. Horse tracks all over but no foot tracks after the corral.
 Q  I see.
 How many people live in the home in which you live? Let me rephrase that. In May and June of 1975 how many people {470} lived in your residence?
 A  In May when the break in took place, me and my sister and my mom and my dad.
 Q  Four people?
 A  Four people.
 Q  How many guns did you say were taken?
 A  Seven.
 Q  Can you tell me what kind of guns they were?
 A  Three 22's, a 20 gauge, a 410 and a 12 gauge.
 Q  Those last three guns are shotguns?
 A  Shotguns. Three shotguns, and a 303, and 32 pistol and a 357 pistol.
 Q  That's nine guns altogether?
 A  Yeah.
 Q  And how many belonged to you?
 A  To me?
 Q  Just how many? Not which ones.
 A  One.
 Q  How many to your mother?
 A  None. The rest were probably just family's, you know.
 Q  Family guns?
 A  Well, let's say dad owned them.
 Q  I understand.
 But in terms of who used them or who carried them.
 A  I was the only one who really did any hunting.
{471}
 Q  Did anybody else use any of those guns?
 A  In the family?
 Q  Yes. I'm talking about your family.
 A  They wanted to, yeah, I suppose.
 Q  But did anybody actually, your father use any of those guns?
 A  Yeah. We all used them, except for like mom and my sisters, they...
 Q  They never used the guns, just you and your father?
 A  And like my brothers, wanted to go hunting or something.
 Q  Do you know what the expression intermittent shooting means?
 A  No.
 Q  Do you recall that Mr. Crooks asked you whether there was intermittent shooting and you shook your head yes?
 A  I mean like shooting now and then shooting like every once in awhile.
 Q  At intervals?
 A  Yeah.
 Q  Okay.
 You said the shooting lasted a half hour.
 A  Well, somewheres in that nature. Maybe longer. Maybe, yeah. It's approximately longer than half an hour.
 Q  Do you mean the first installment of the shooting lasted a {472} half an hour or do you mean that's all the shooting there was that afternoon while you were there?
 A  No. Like I heard the shots and I didn't think nothing of it, you know, so I went about my work. Went in the house and, you know, didn't pay too much attention to it because --
 Q  But I want to find out from you whether you only heard one period of shooting perhaps lasting a half hour and no more between the time you first heard the shooting and the time you left.
 A  Well, let's just say they were shooting all during that time. Maybe they might have stopped, maybe they might have shot a little more. They were shooting, all during the time I heard shooting.
 Q  What time was it you left approximately?
 A  1:30, 2:00 o'clock, somewheres around there.
 Q  Have you ever heard of the American Indian Movement?
 A  Yeah.
 Q  And is it known by a shorter name on the reservation?
 A  Yeah.
 Q  What's it named by?
 A  AIM.
 Q  And have you ever heard the expression "goon"?
 A  Yeah.
 Q  What does that word indicate?
 A  Supposed to be Wilson supporters or opposition or whatever.
{473}
 Q  Opposition to what?
 A  To the AIM movement or whatever.
 Q  Now did you know that the area which we've called tent city was an AIM encampment?
 A  Yes.
 Q  And were there any religious activities going on in connection with that encampment?
 A  Religious?
 Q  Yes.
 A  I don't know. I never asked them. Never saw them.
 Q  You said you saw a sweat lodge?
 A  That was after the shooting and everything took place. You know, we remembered that camp so I and my brother and my cousin went down to see what was down there.
 Q  Did you find the sweat lodge there?
 A  Yeah.
 Q  Was there any connection between a sweat lodge and religious activities?
 A  Yes.
 Q  Could you describe by name the religion that uses a sweat lodge as part of its religious activity?
 A  No. I never, I've heard a lot about it but I couldn't tell you the name.
 Q  You are an Indian, are you not?
 A  Yeah. Part.
{474}
 Q  One grandparent or two grandparents or how many grandparents were Indian?
 A  All of them on my father's side.
 Q  So you're half Indian?
 A  Not quite half. I mean, all the relations on my father's side were mostly Indian except for my great grandfather.
 Q  Does your family follow any religious beliefs?
 A  What do you mean? Like Christian, Catholic, whatever?
 Q  Yes.
 A  They're Christian.
 Q  Your family is Christian?
 A  Yeah.
 Q  Is it a fact or is it not a fact that the AIM people were trying to persuade people to return to the old Indian religious ways?
 A  I'm not sure; no. I don't lcnow.
 Q  You're not sure. Did you ever make reference to the activity of the people in the tent city by calling it a revival?
 A  Did I ever what?
 Q  Did you ever describe the activity going on in tent city as a revival?
 A  I never knew of tent city until after it all happened.
 Q  I understand that. But once you found out about it and talked about the activities of the people in AIM city, did you {475} ever refer to that activity as a revival?
 A  There was a revival going on at the time but that wasn't around there. That was way up further from them, some sort of a revival. I don't know if any religious, Christian or Moslem or whatever. There was a revival going on on up that way.
 Q  Did you ever tell Special Agent Frederick Coward of the FBI that you thought there was a connection between the people in that camp and the revival that was going on in Oglala?
 A  I might have told him that. Well, might have told him that maybe. Maybe that was, might have used that to get a lot of people in. That's just speculation. I didn't know.
 Q  First I'm asking about what you said to somebody, then perhaps we can go into the meaning of what you said.
 A  Oh.
 Q  My question is --
 A  Yeah.
 Q  Did you ever tell an FBI agent or did you ever mention a connection in your opinion between the revival that was going on in the Oglala area and the people in the tent city area?
 A  Yeah. But I never knew it was going to come to this. I just was talking to him. I didn't know he was going to put it on record or anything. I was just talking to him about it. I said maybe. I didn't say I thought it was. I said maybe.
 Q  Were you somewhat surprised that I knew what you said to the {476} FBI?
 A  Yes.
 Q  You don't like the American Indian Movement, isn't that correct?
 A  Well, I don't like the things that they have done.
 Q  You don't like them, the people associated with them, isn't that correct?
 A  No. I'm friends with lots of AIM people.
 Q  Some of your best friends are AIM people?
 A  Not best friends but some of the people.
 MR. TAIKEFF:  May I have a moment to confer with Mr. Sikma, Your Honor?
 THE COURT:  Very well.
 MR. TAIKEFF:  Your Honor, that page was delivered. Could I have a moment to look at it?
 THE COURT:  You may.
 Q  (By Mr. Taikeff) Now let's go back to June of 1975, almost two years ago. Is it fair to say that at that time you did not like AIM or any of the positions which it took on the reservation?
 A  Yeah. It would be fair.
 Q  You understand, of course, you're entitled to your personal opinion.
 A  Yeah. And so are they.
 Q  In fact, in talking about Harry Jumping Bull, you once {477} said that "He is with AIM but he's always been nice to us," isn't that correct?
 A  No. That isn't correct.
 Q  That's not correct that you once said that to somebody?
 A  I said that there has been, he's been associated with AIM. I didn't say anything like that.
 Q  At page 54, grand jury material, you testified before a grand jury in connection with this case?
 A  Yes.
 Q  And you were under oath at that time?
 A  Yes.
 Q  Tell me whether you recall being asked the following question and giving the answer that I will read to you, question:  "Do you know whether or not Harry Jumping Bull or his wife are associated with AIM?" Answer:  "Well, Harry always has been nice to us and then I always liked him but I knew he was, I figured he was or else he wouldn't have nothing to do with them. They wouldn't have been staying around there if they wouldn't, but he was always nice to us."
 A  That's the same --
 Q  Just tell me whether or not you recall that question and answer.
 Now you were testifying there under oath, right?
 A  Yes.
 Q  And you told the truth before the grand jury, right?
{478}
 A  Well, maybe I got, I had it wrong or something but I'm not saying he was AIM.
 Q  Calm down a little bit and listen to my question. All I asked you was when you gave that answer before the grand jury were you saying the truth? Yes or no.
 A  You mean I was saying he was AIM?
 Q  Do you read English?
 A  Yeah.
 Q  Let me show you page 54 and ask you to read this question and that answer and this question and that answer to yourself just to see if it refreshes your recollection.
 A  Yeah.
 Q  Do you remember being asked those questions?
 A  Yeah.
 Q  Now one of those questions was the one I just read out loud, isn't that correct?
 A  Yeah.
 Q  And you answered that question, didn't you?
 A  You mean here or there?
 Q  There in the grand jury.
 A  Yeah.
 Q  And I read the answer exactly the way it is on that piece of paper, right?
 A  (Witness nods affirmatively.)
 Q  Isn't that the answer you gave to the grand jury?
{479}
 A  Yes. It's on paper.
 Q  I beg your pardon?
 A  Yeah.
 Q  And when you said that answer, as far as you were concerned you were telling the truth, right?
 A  Yeah. At that time; yeah.
 Q  You're telling the truth right now?
 A  About him being AIM?
 Q  No. About all your answers. Are you telling us the truth?
 A  Yeah.
 Q  Now right after that were you asked the following question and did you give the following answer, question, same page:  "How about Ivis Long Visitor and his wife Angie, do you know if they were ever members of AIM or associated?" Answer:  "I knew they were probably associated but they were still nice to us."
 A  Uh-huh.
 Q  You gave that answer?
 A  Uh-huh.
 Q  Was that a truthful answer?
 A  Yeah.
{480}
 Q  Now what was the connection between various people being members or supporters of AIM and the question of whether or not they were very nice to you?
 A  You mean -- well, just because they're AIM don't mean you can't talk with them or, you still got to live with them.
 You can't throw them out altogether because they're AIM. If you are going to live there, you have to be friendly with everyone around there. If they're neighbors, you know, you got to be friendly with them.
 Q  Well, do you expect people who are AIM member or AIM supporters not to be nice to you?
 A  It depends upon the situation.
 Q  Well, then when you were asked whether certain people were members or supporters of AIM, in each instance you specifically said, "Yes I think they were but they were nice to me."
 But motivated you to make that special statement at the end?
 MR. CROOKS:  Your Honor, I'll object to this as an improper use of this grand jury transcript.
 In fact he's asking questions from the transcript. He isn't even contending that they're supposed to be inconsistent with anything the witness is saying.
 I object to the grand jury transcript being read in lieu of asking the witness questions.
 I think he can question the witness as to his present {481} recollection and if his answer is inconsistent, then go to the transcript but he's doing it just the other way around and I'd object.
 MR. TAIKEFF:  Your Honor, I'd like to make a brief response.
 I asked the witness whether he ever made a statement that, "Harry Jumping Bull is with AIM but he was always nice to us," and he answered, "No. I never made any such statement," and that is the use of that transcript, to illuminate that point.
 MR. CROOKS:  Your Honor, that's been asked and answered about three times and I object going back to this transcript. I object to examination in this fashion.
 If he wishes to carry his examination on and come back to the transcript for an inconsistent answer, that's an entirely different thing but that isn't what he's doing now. He's reading the grand jury transcript and I object to it.
 MR. TAIKEFF:  All right. I'll assure Mr. Crooks that I'm turning it face down and putting it under my other papers.
 Q  (By Mr. Taikeff) Now, Mr. Rooks, what is it about people who are members or supports of AIM that makes you say when you're asked if someone is a member of AIM, "Yes, but they've been nice to me"? What does being nice have to do with their being members of AIM?
 A  Nothing I suppose.
{482}
 Q  Well, does it mean that if someone's a member of AIM there's some reason why you should expect they wouldn't be nice to you?
 A  Yeah. Because I don't look that much Indian.
 Q  Does your family take a public position with respect to Mr. Wilson or did they when Mr. Wilson was a tribal chairman?
 A  No. They never have.
 I mean we, they never supported him. In fact my dad never did, never voted for him when he was up for election.
 Q  So do you have any personal reason to think that AIM would not like you?
 A  No. I suppose not.
 Q  Did any people from AIM ever attempt to persuade you to follow the old Indian religious ways?
 A  Well. I've talked to people, a lot of them about it, not a lot of them but I've talked to people and they've talked about the religion.
 Q  And have they tried to persuade you to go back to the old ways?
 A  Not, not persuade me.
 They just tell me what they believe in and that's it.
 Q  Do you know what a missionary is?
 A  Yeah.
 Q  Are there any missionaries on the reservation that you knew of?
{483}
 A  You mean Mormon, Christian?
 Q  Christian, Mormon, any kind of religious missionary?
 A  Well there's the Jesuits if you want to call them that, missionaries and there is the Mormon elders.
 Q  How about Mr. Weston, do you know Mr. Weston?
 A  I don't think so. I don't know. Which Weston?
 Q  A young fellow who preaches Christianity.
 A  No. I don't know him.
 Q  When you refer to AIM people, do you refer to them or have you ever referred to them as a bunch of long-haired people?
 A  Yeah. Well, maybe there's a lot of them that, they might be AIM and, you know, it's just the way, they just stay the way they are, you know. They don't grow their hair or --
 Q  Don't you think the people with long hair are the way they are?
 A  What do you mean?
 Q  Well, you said some of them just stay the way they are and don't grow their hair long.
 A  Okay. I'm sorry.
 Q  Do you associate long hair with any people?
 A  No. I know a lot of long-haired people that don't believe or follow or whatever.
 Q  Is it fair to say that there came a time when you discovered or believed that the people in tent city were AIM people; yes or no?
{484}
 A  Yeah.
 Q  When did that thought occur to you or fact occur to you?
 A  You mean tent city?
 Q  Yes.
 A  I didn't know about tent city until after it happened but I, I knew that there was one, well, there was some AIM people around the area, I mean, that were living around there.
 Q  Isn't it a fact that you told the grand jury that you had assumed that the people in tent city were AIM?
 A  Yeah.
 Q  Well, as of when did you first make that assumption?
 A  You mean like if I -- I went down there a few times, you know I seen some people around there, you know, and --
 Q  Have you finished your answer?
 A  Yeah.
 Q  On June 26, 1975 there was a shootout at the Jumping Bull area, correct?
 A  (Witness nods affirmatively.)
 Q  How many people died?
 A  Three.
 Q  Before that happened did you know that there was an AIM encampment on the Jumping Bull property?
 A  I'm having trouble with thinking, I mean, I don't know what you mean by the camp.
 Q  By encampment. Did you know that there was an AIM group -- {485} living on that property?
 When did you first find that out?
 A  You mean AIM camp living on the property? I knew that there was AIM people in the area but I never knew that there was an AIM camp in -- yeah.
 Q  When you were before the grand jury did they question you about who was living on the Jumping Bull property or who had been living on the Jumping Bull property?
 A  I think they did; yeah.
 Q  And did you tell them that there were AIM people living on the property?
 A  Yeah. I suppose.
 Q  You suppose?
 A  Well, yeah. I told them that. Okay.
 MR. CROOKS:  Your Honor, could I have the reference to which counsel is making?
 MR. TAIKEFF:  Yes, Your Honor. It's page 46 beginning around line 16.
 Q  (By Mr. Taikeff) Do you know whether the defendant in this case has anything to do with AIM?
 A  Yeah.
 Q  I didn't hear your answer.
 A  I never seen him before so I don't know.
 Q  Do you have any belief as you sit there whether he has anything to do with AIM?
{486}
 A  What's he on trial for?
 Q  Does that make a difference?
 A  Yeah. If he's on trial for, for what he, for killing the officers and the AIM people were there, well, I suppose he must be involved with them somehow.
 Q  So your assumption is that if something happened on the Jumping Bull property it had to be done by people associated with AIM, is that correct?
 A  Yes.
 MR. TAIKEFF:  I have no further questions.
 MR. CROOKS:  We have nothing further and we'd ask that Mr. Rooks be excused, Your Honor.
 MR. TAIKEFF:  No objection, Your Honor.
 THE COURT:  You may step down and you are excused.