US vs LEONARD PELTIER TRIAL TRANSCRIPT EXCERPTS Case Number CR77-3003

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TROOPER HANSON, OREGON STATE POLICE

VOLUME 12

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 EDWARD E. HANSON
being first duly sworn, testified as follows:
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 DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. CROOKS:
Q  Mr. Hanson, would you give your full name again for the record, please.
A  Edward Eugene Hanson.
Q  Where do you live, sir?
A  Live in Ontario, Oregon.
Q  And what is your occupation?
A  I'm employed with the Oregon State Police.
Q  How long have you been with the Oregon State Police, Mr. Hanson?
A  Approximately seven years.
Q  And what is your present duty position or status? Are you a trooper, investigator or what was your official title?
A  I'm a criminal investigator assigned to the Ontario patrol office.
Q  And how long have you been in that capacity as an investigator?
A  Approximately three years.
Q  Calling your attention back to November of 1975, did you have occasion to be called to the scene of an incident involving a Dodge motor home and a white Plymouth automobile?
A  Yes, I did.
Q  And I would show you Exhibit 61 and ask whether or not these are in fact photographs of the vehicles in question?
A  Yes, the are.
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Q  Now during the course of your investigation, were you called upon to make any search of those vehicles?
A  Yes, I was.
Q  Were these searches pursuant to a search warrant of any kind?
A  Yes, they were.
Q  What was the nature of that?
A  They were pursuant to a State Search Warrant to search for evidence of an attempted murder.
Q  And insofar as the search was concerned, do you recall the day that the search started?
A  November 15, 1975 when the search started.
Q  This would be the day following the purported incident?
A  That's correct.
Q  And do you recall the approximate time, not necessarily the exact time, but the approximate time of the day that the search commenced?
A  It was approximately 4:20 P.M.
Q  And who was with you when the search was commenced?
A  Myself and Sergeant Zeller were conducting the search and during this time other people arrived and left and I'm not certain who was present when we actually started the search.
Q  Were there special agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation on hand?
A  There were at different times; yes.
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Q  And what part, if any, did they play in your search?
A  They just observed the search.
Q  Now insofar as the Federal Bureau of Investigation is concerned, were you aware of the fact that there had been an all points bulletin out on these vehicles?
A  Yes, I was.
Q  And they were looking for what? I mean, not necessarily whom but what?
A  Evidence leading to the apprehension of federal fugitives.
Q  And to the best of your knowledge is this a function of the FBI to pursue Federal fugitives?
A  Yes, it is.
Q  During the course of the search were items removed from the motor home?
A  Yes, there was.
Q  And at a later time was there a federal search warrant also obtained?
A  Yes.
Q  Do you recall when this was executed, if you recall?
A  I believe their search was started on November 17 at approximately 12:05 P.M.
Q  Insofar as the search made by the state troopers, who is principally doing the search? Who would you say was in charge of the search itself?
A  I was actually in charge of the search but because of {2420} Sergeant Zeller's expertise in fingerprinting, he actually preceded me to make sure that the fingerprint evidence was preserved.
Q  So Sergeant Zeller would principally be the initial searcher and you then would have searched after he'd been reasonably assured of preserving fingerprints, is that correct?
A  That's correct.
Q  All right.
Insofar as the items taken from the vehicle, were there any firearms removed?
A  Yes, there was.
Q  And again, referring you to Exhibit No. 61, pages 3, 4 and 5, would you examine those very briefly if you would, please.
Having examined those, do those depict firearms that you observed being taken from the recreational vehicle or the Plymouth station wagon?
A  Yes, they do.
Q  And were there other firearms which are not depicted in that photograph, if you recall?
A  Yes, there were. There were additional ones.
Q  What about an AR15, do you know what that is?
A  Yes.
Q  Showing you what has been marked as 34AA which has previously been identified and received into evidence as an AR15 were any weapons of this type recovered?
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A  Yes, there was.
Q  Now that is to say that this is the weapon, but of this type, is that correct?
A  That's correct.
Q  You would have no way of knowing if this was the weapon?
A  I might have marked it for evidence, I don't know.
Q  Well, I can assure you it was not, but I wish you would examine it.
MR. ELLISON:  Your Honor, I would object to Mr. Crooks' testifying in this matter. He's perfectly capable of answering.
MR. CROOKS:  I'll withdraw the remarks, Your Honor.
THE COURT:  Sustained.
A  This was not the weapon that I found.
Q  (By Mr. Crooks) With regard to the AR15 that was found, you responded that this was not the weapon. What lead you to that conclusion?
A  The AR15 --
MR. ELLISON:  Objection, Your Honor. Side bar?
(Whereupon, the following proceedings were had at the bench:)
MR. ELLISON:  Your Honor, the weapon that was found in Oregon has an obliterated serial number. The proof of that crime has no relationship to this particular case.
MR. CROOKS:  Your Honor, I had understood we {2422} already won that ruling. I understood we were entitled to go into the fact of the obliterated serial numbers. That is in fact what the witness will say.
MR. ELLISON:  Your Honor, my understanding was that the government was permitted to go into the weapon, go into the fact that certain weapons were found in the mobile home and the Plymouth. I did not hear any ruling pertaining to obliterated serial numbers.
THE COURT:  The objection is overruled.
(Whereupon, the following proceedings in the courtroom in the hearing and presence of the jury:)
MR. CROOKS:  Would you repeat the question. Whereupon, the following question was read back:  With regard to the AR15 that was found, you responded that this was not the weapon. What lead you to that conclusion? Answer:  The AR15 --)
Q  (By Mr. Crooks) Let me also add before you answer that. The one I'm referring to is 34AA. How do you know this is not the weapon?
A  The serial number on the weapon that I found was obliterated and I notice that the serial number is intact on that weapon.
Q  Would you point out to the jury where the serial number is that you're referring to.
A  Serial number is this stamped number in this area (indicating).
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Q  With regard to the serial number on the other weapon, you're saying that there was no such number?
A  It had been obliterated.
Q  How had it been obliterated from your recollection of it:  covered up or what?
A  IT had been stamped out with some object making it so it could not be, wasn't legible.
Q  Were there other weapons that you recall which are not photographed in Exhibit 61A aside from the AR15 as best you can recall?
A  I believe there were.
Q  Officer Hanson, in your examination of the Dodge motor home and the recreational vehicle, or, excuse me, and the Plymouth station wagon, were there communication devices found?
A  Yes, there was.
Q  And would you describe generally what you observed insofar as each vehicle concerning communication devices?
A  Each vehicle contained a citizen's band radio both tuned to channel 11.
O And were there other radios aside from the ones that appear to be mounted into the vehicles, as you recall?
A  Yes. There were portable radios found in the back of the motor home, or recreational vehicle.
Q  And were these a commercial AM, FM type radio or are these communication type radios?
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A  I think what would be commonly known as walkie-talkie type radios.
Q  Now insofar as the search of the vehicle, particularly the Plymouth, was a tool box located?
A  Yes.
MR. ELLISON:  Objection, Your Honor. Leading.
THE COURT:  Sustained.
MR. ELLISON:  Move to strike any answer to this question because the question was suggestive.
Q  (By Mr. Crooks) Well, would you start at the top and go to the bottom and list everything that was found in the Plymouth station wagon then. We'll do it the long way.
A  Items I seized from the Plymouth station wagon included a small baggie of vegetable material --
MR. ELLISON:  Your Honor, object to this witness reading from any form of list. He has not testified that he cannot recall from his own recollection what was found in the station wagon and for purposes of expediency we're, rather than going through lengthy lists we will allow the government to ask him proper questions.
MR. CROOKS:  Thank you, Counsel.
Q  (By Mr. Crooks) Was there a tool box found?
A  There were two tool boxes found in the Plymouth station wagon.
Q  What was done with the tool boxes?
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A  I kept the tool boxes for a period in my possession and then later turned them over to FBI Special Agent Steven Hancock.
Q  Did you open the tool boxes yourself?
A  Yes, I did.
Q  And did you observe any of the contents in the tool box?
A  Yes, I did.
Q  And would you describe generally what you observed with regard to the tool box that you turned over to Special Agent Hancock?
A  There were numerous items. Some of the items were wiring, pocket watches were with wires leading out of them, tools, plyers, side cutting plyers. In one of the tool boxes there was some empty shell casings, fired shell casings.
Q  You talked about wires and some kind of device. Showing you picture number, the one on the bottom of page 5, there are items depicted. Are these similar to the items you're talking about?
A  Yes, they are.
Q  Do you recall when you turned the tool box over to Special Agent Hancock?
MR. ELLISON:  Your Honor, again I don't believe that the witness has testified that he cannot recall specifically what he's being asked to respond to and he is again referring to his notes. We'd ask this practice be stopped.
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THE COURT:  Well, the Court will allow the witness to refer to notes to refresh his recollection and Counsel is aware, of course, that you have the right to --
MR. ELLISON:  Yes, Your Honor.
THE COURT:  -- see those notes.
MR. ELLISON:  Yes, Your Honor. However, this witness has not so far testified that he cannot testify from his own knowledge with regard to the specific question asked by Mr. Crooks and we only ask that this be done in the proper fashion.
THE COURT:  Counsel will lay the proper foundation..
MR. CROOKS:  All right.
Q  (By Mr. Crooks) Do you recall the specific date off the top of your head?
A  No, I do not.
Q  Do you have notes with you that would aid you in refreshing your recollection?
A  Yes, I do.
Q  Would you consult those notes and then inform me if your recollection is refreshed.
A  I'm unable to find that in my notes.
Q  In any event, with regard to the, I believe you said two tool boxes, would they have been turned over the same day in which they were found or at a later date?
A  AT a late date.
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Q  With regard to the evidence which was found, aside from the tool boxes, was there another found by you and the state officers, were there other items which were also turned over to the Federal Bureau of Investigation?
A  Yes. Most of the items that I seized were turned over to Special Agent Hancock.
MR. CROOKS:  We have no further questions.
MR. ELLISON:  I have a few questions, Your Honor.
THE COURT:  You may cross-examine.
MR. ELLISON:  Your Honor, if I could have just a moment to find a document.
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 CROSS EXAMINATION
By MR. ELLISON:
Q  Officer Hanson, in your examination on November 15th of the mobile home, was one of the items that was seized by you a .357 magnum?
A  Yes, it was.
Q  I show you what has been marked as Government's Exhibit 35-A, was this the .357 magnum which you found in the mobile home?
A  Yes, it is.
Q  And you had custody of that .357 magnum?
A  Yes, I did.
Q  And your custody was exclusive, wasn't it? I mean, you didn't share that custody with anyone else, did you?
A  Originally I shared that custody with Sergeant Zeller.
Q  Well, when you say "originally", for how long did you share that custody?
A  I would say on that date I shared it with him until it was transferred to our evidence locker, from the time that it was originally found until it was transferred to our evidence locker.
Q  All right. So that at the conclusion of the day on November 15th Sergeant Zeller's custody with regard to this .357 magnum ended and this .357 magnum became within your sole custody?
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A  I believe that would be correct.
Q  Sergeant Zeller didn't get custody of this weapon on the 16th or the 17th of November, did he?
A  He could have had joint access to it.
Q  Is there a difference between access and custody?
A  I believe so.
Q  So he may have had access to it because you were working together, is that correct?
A  That's correct.
Q  But you had custody of this item?
A  I would say so.
Q  All right.
In discussions earlier on direct examination you talked about finding a weapon which was shown to you, marked Government's Exhibit 34-AA, is that correct?
A  Yes.
Q  And you testified that the weapon you found had an obliterated serial number?
A  That's correct.
Q  Are you aware of 34-AA being simply an illustration or here for illustration purposes?
A  No, I am not.
Q  All right.
On direct examination you were asked whether you knew what an AR-15 was, is that correct?
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A  Yes.
Q  By the way, is an AR-15 an automatic weapon?
A  It can either be automatic or semi-automatic. There is on the military style, there is a selector on some of them, and then some of them don't come with a selector, I believe.
Q  In the military version known as the M-16?
A  I believe that's correct.
Q  And the civilian version is known as the AR-15?
A  I believe that's correct.
Q  And the AR-15 only comes in semi-automatic fashion?
A  This could be so. I am not certain.
Q  If you were to examine the AR-15 which I just showed you, would that help to refresh your recollection?
A  Probably not. I am not that familiar with weapons.
Q  O.k. When you found this AR-15 in the mobile home, there were FBI Agents present, were there not, at least in the general location?
A  Yes, there were.
Q  When you brought this AR-15, the FBI showed a pretty strong interest in the recovery of that item, didn't they?
A  They were strongly interested in the whole series.
Q  They were particularly interested in the AR-15?
A  I don't recall any more interest on that weapon than any other weapons.
Q  On November 18th, 1975, did you transfer custody of the {2431} .357 magnum marked as Government's Exhibit 35-A to a Special Agent of the FBI known as Steven Hancock?
A  I did transfer it to him, and don't recall if that was the date.
Q  I hand you what has been marked for identification purposes as Defendant's Exhibit 152.
Would you please look at that document and see if that refreshes your recollection as to the date you transferred custody of the .357 magnum marked Government's Exhibit 35-A to Special Agent Hancock?
A  (Examining) It is very possible that it was that date, but I don't recall; and my notes apparently don't reflect that date that I have with me.
Q  All right, but you have no doubt that it was you that transferred the .357 magnum to Special Agent Hancock?
A  That's correct.
Q  Did you feel any need to personally notify Sergeant Zeller about that transfer, I mean, he wasn't in custody of the item, was he?
A  No. He probably would have been aware of the transfer, but I don't understand your question.
Q  You were in sole custody of that .357 magnum?
A  Yes.
Q  As a result of that custody, since you were in sole custody, you didn't feel any particular need to contact {2432} Sergeant Zeller and ask his permission to transfer that custody?
MR. CROOKS:  Your Honor, I will object to the form of the question. This is repetition, repetitious and it is argumentative.
THE COURT:  Oh, the witness may answer.
A  I may have asked him if he was through processing the weapon for prints before I transferred it. Therefore, he may have been aware of it.
Q  (By Mr. Ellison) All right, but did you understand that, my question?
A  Apparently not.
Q  I will restate the question.
You didn't feel any need to ask Sergeant Zeller to transfer custody of that .357 magnum from the Oregon State Police to the FBI?
A  No.
Q  All right, thank you; and just one final question:
On direct examination there were a number of times in which you referred to your notes because you were unable to recall specific events in response to questions asked by Mr. Crooks. When you looked at those notes, was your memory independently refreshed or were you forced to rely upon your notes?
A  It was independently refreshed.
Q  On all occasions?
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A  I believe so.
MR. ELLISON:  I have no further questions, your Honor.
MR. CROOKS:  We have nothing further.
THE COURT:  You may step down.
(Witness excused.)